Paul Ince Exclusive Interview: England’s World Cup Chances & Man Utd Resurgence

What have we learned about England after this match?

If you look at a lot of England’s games in the past—more so under Southgate—when they played against teams who sit deep and don’t come out, they seem to struggle a bit. They seem to struggle to break down a low block and defensive teams, history shows that.

When you look at the Croatia game, Croatia came out to play, which helped benefit England. It gave England more space for the likes of Anthony Gordon and Noni Madueke, and room for Jude Bellingham to run into from deep. That first game was a really good performance.

This match was completely different. Ghana came to try and stop England playing, and there was no space whatsoever. I mean, the full-backs were brilliant for Ghana; they stayed tight to Madueke and they didn’t allow Gordon any chance to turn. There was no space for Bellingham to run into or for Harry Kane to drop into, which was completely opposite to the first game.

When it’s like that, England seems to run out of ideas. For me, this is where you need someone like Morgan Rogers—someone who can beat one or two people with a dribble to drag Ghana out of their defensive shape.

Do England need to play two DMs in Rice and Anderson when teams play like that? I think people want them to be more adventurous.

I’m not sure why you need to have two holding midfielders when you’re playing against Ghana.

England had two holding midfielders in Declan Rice and Elliot Anderson, meaning Bellingham couldn’t get in behind. They couldn’t create anything from open play whatsoever.

I know Rice starts to venture forward a bit, but ultimately you’ve got two central midfield players just sitting there, passing it side-to-side, hoping to get a free-kick or wait for a mistake from Ghana. That’s what I learned.

On Djed Spence doubts

I’m not sure whether Djed Spence can play that left-back role long-term. I know he’s played there for Tottenham at times this year, but the balance just doesn’t seem right to me. You’ve got inverted wingers coming inside, which perfectly suits Ghana because they are just playing a low block with all their men packed centrally. Why would you want your wingers coming inside into that crowd? You want them to stay outside and try to stretch the pitch. Spence got down the left-hand side once on his weaker left foot, and the quality was poor. It makes you wonder why someone like Luke Shaw didn’t go, just to give a proper balance to the side.

What lessons or learnings do you think Thomas Tuchel would have taken from this performance?

To hear him say last night, “It’s a really difficult group and we knew that” was a small concern, as the tournament will only get harder.

I actually think England look much better against teams that come out and attack them because of the raw pace we have on the break.

Personally, I’d like to see Bukayo Saka start the next game. I don’t fully understand the reason behind Noni Madueke starting ahead of him—maybe it’s a Chelsea connection with Tuchel, and maybe Tuchel likes the chemistry between him and James. I think Saka must have been carrying a knock, I don’t know. But let’s see Saka start the next match.

Even yesterday, I’m not saying you have to take Harry Kane off, but why not go 4-4-2? Change it up, bring Ollie Watkins on, and start getting early balls into the box. You’ve got Ivan Toney there, you’ve got Watkins, and at no time did we change the formation to try and proactively win the game. I just think they ran out of ideas. There were no combination plays, no quick one-twos around the corners—there was nothing like that. When I watch other top nations, I can see exactly what they’re trying to do. Sometimes when I watch England, I’m not sure what the plan is. It’s so pedestrian, so sideways, and so backward. It was actually a boring game last night—to be honest, I nearly fell asleep.

What do you think of the Anderson/Rice combination – what works and what doesn’t?

Well, first and foremost, I think Declan Rice is a world-class player who has been outstanding for the last couple of years, especially at Arsenal last season winning a league title. But this is a completely new combination, isn’t it? It’s not something where they’ve played 50 games together.

And I’m going to say this: we’re talking about Man City spending £100 million-plus for Elliot Anderson. If he is worth that, then Declan Rice must be worth about £200 million, and Roy Keane, in his prime, he must have been worth £300 million.

Anderson is a good player, but for me, I’m not entirely sure what he does in a game like that. Watching him against Ghana, there was a lot of side-to-side passing. At times, he was actually dropping behind his own centre-halves to pick the ball up. You don’t need to be there against Ghana; you need to be further up the park to threaten them.

When you’re in that midfield role—and I’ve played there all my life—if Sir Alex Ferguson saw me dropping behind Gary Pallister and Steve Bruce to pick up the ball, he’d be absolutely screaming at me. He would be saying, “Get up the park!” I should be getting the ball 20 yards further up, not five yards behind my centre-backs.

There were a lot of safe, sideways passes from him, and maybe it’s a partnership that will work in the future.

Bellingham can easily drop back and play in there. I’ve always said we don’t need to play with two number sixes. We are sacrificing creativity up front, and we saw that yesterday. It’s early doors for that partnership, sure, but when I played in there, I had Paul Gascoigne next to me. I was the lone holding midfielder, and we all know how great Gazza was. We needed a bit of that Gazza magic last night—someone to just take on one or two people and produce a bit of wizardry.

I didn’t see anyone out there who was going to create something out of nothing. Our only real moments came from a Nick O’Riley cross where Kane should have scored, but apart from set-pieces, we didn’t show what other top teams have. That’s why it was such a struggle.

How much do you see of yourself in Anderson and the way he goes about his business, but how much do England miss a Paul Gascoigne-type creative midfielder, like the one you played with at Euro 96?

Well, look, you can never compare any of these current England players to Paul Gascoigne. Fact. I’m not sure we’ll ever see another Gazza. But when you look at someone like Morgan Rogers, who can do something different and has been outstanding all season for Aston Villa, he is that type of player. He can get the ball, beat one or two players, and make things happen. If you take Rogers out of the equation, there isn’t really anyone else with that specific profile in this squad.

But coming back to Elliot Anderson—when I look back to the Holland game in Euro 96, Terry Venables said to me, “Paul, just sit in there, control it, get the ball, but make sure that once in the first half and once in the second half, you make a late run forward.” Because opponents just expect you to stand there, sit in your hole, and play the easy pass. And if you look at the penalty I won against Holland in that 4-1 game, that was from me bombing forward into the box.

There’s no reason why Anderson can’t do that now and then. At Manchester United, Sir Alex Ferguson used to tell me, “Just make three or four runs every half to get into the box and make things happen.” But nowadays, the stigma is that when you play in that number six role, you have to stay anchored in that position. How many shots does Anderson actually have from midfield? Not many. He’s a very good player, but there needs to be more to his game—especially if we’re talking about him being a £100 million player.

Paul Gascoigne was a phenomenon. I just don’t see that specific spark in England at the moment. When they play against teams who are just going to sit there, I really don’t see how they’re going to break them down outside of winning a random free-kick or a set-piece. We heard Thomas Tuchel say last night, “Well, it’s a difficult group, we knew that.” And I’m sitting there thinking, come on, let’s be honest—it’s Ghana and Panama.

Arsenal are supposedly looking at spending big money on Morgan Rogers – will the Arsenal boys in the camp have been tapping him up?

Listen, it’s never going to go away. You know what I mean? In our camps it was kind of funny because you used to constantly get tapped up by some of the other England players.

They’d say, “Come to Arsenal,” or the Liverpool lads would try to get you to Anfield, or whatever it may be. They always have a little quiet word on the side. “Listen, when you go back from England duty, have a chat with so-and-so, see if they fancy coming to Man United or Man City”—you can never truly get away from it.

I think when we played in Euro 96, we weren’t even allowed any newspapers at the hotel because of all the intense transfer speculation that goes on during a tournament. And you’re seeing it now with Morgan Rogers—there will be people ringing him up, saying, “Oh, have you heard about the Arsenal links? What’s happening?”

Like any other player at a World Cup who another top team wants, he’ll probably just say, “Look, let me just get the World Cup out of the way, and then I’ll make a decision from there.” But it’s not something that should negatively affect your performance. If anything, it gives you a massive lift. The fact that you’ve got a top team like Arsenal—who are Premier League champions—wanting to bring you to their club, that should elevate you.

Actually, that’s why I want to see more from Elliot Anderson on this stage. Everyone is talking about his price tag, and while the fee isn’t his fault, this is his moment to perform if he’s being valued that highly. This is where you have to show it. But for lads like Rogers, there are always players in camp whispering, “No, don’t go to Arsenal, come to City,” or “Come to United.” They’ll spin it. But once the whistle blows, you just focus on the match and let your agent work on things behind closed doors. I’m sure once the World Cup is over, he’d be a fantastic buy for Arsenal; he’s been brilliant this season.

My only question is where he actually fits into their starting XI. He likes to play that number 10 role, but Arsenal already have Martin Ødegaard there, and you’ve got Eberechi Eze there too. Bukayo Saka has locked down the right wing, so maybe Rogers plays on the left-hand side if Gabriel Martinelli or Leandro Trossard aren’t playing. When you spend that kind of money, he has to start. So where does he fit in?

Did you try to tap up Alan Shearer?

Obviously, we were desperate to get Alan Shearer. Desperate. He was the main one on the radar at Old Trafford. Not that Fergie explicitly told me to tap him up—we’re not saying that officially!

But I knew he was the prime target. It would have been great, but he blew us out—he f***ed off to Newcastle instead (laughs). I was gutted because I knew with Shearer in the team, we would have been unstoppable. We would have won everything.

For me, Alan Shearer is the greatest Premier League striker of all time. Back in 1993 or 1994, when I was playing for England and we had just won the Double at United, we were winning trophies every single year. So there was an element of seriousness to it, alongside the joking around, just to sound him out and see how he truly felt about the situation. But unfortunately, we missed out on him, which was a real shame.

Elliot Anderson had a great start to his first major tournament finals in the opening game, what qualities do you see in him? How does he compare to other great central midfielders to have played in the Premier League? And how much would a modern day Incey cost?

Well, it’s funny… I went from West Ham to Man United for £1 million! Which is absolute madness when you look at the prices today.

When you are spending that type of money—£80 million, £110 million—you expect that kind of money to be reserved for a striker who guarantees you 30 goals a season.

Mateus Fernandes at West Ham… they’re talking £80 million for him. I mean, before he joined West Ham, he played in a Southampton side that went down, he’s had back-to-back relegations, so to command that kind of money is crazy. I know he’s technically a very good player, but when you pay that much money for midfield players, I want to see an all-rounder.

I look at how I used to play, or Roy Keane, Patrick Vieira, Steven Gerrard—lads who went up and down, scored goals, put in massive tackles, and set up chances. Pure all-rounders. I don’t think a lot of these modern players are true all-rounders. So for clubs to spend this type of money is pure madness. If you’re talking £120 million for Elliot Anderson… come on. Jesus Christ, that’s a lot of money. It’s not the kid’s fault, but if Roy Keane is valued at £300 million in today’s money, then if Anderson is worth £120 million, I’ve got to be worth at least £250 million. At least (laughs)!

Thomas Tuchel has left some big-name stars out of his squad seemingly with the aim to create a more cohesive group. Is that something you think can work on the international stage? Which was the biggest surprise in his squad for you?

Listen, from my time being with England, there’s a generational change now with social media and all that rubbish. But we had a really tight-knit group, right? When we showed up and went to Hong Kong before Euro 96, we had a lot of jokers – Teddy Sheringham, we all know what happened over there! But those kinds of incidents, sometimes they can bring a team together, and we played hard, but we also worked incredibly hard.

I was a joker, Ian Wright was a joker, Paul Gascoigne was a joker. And you need that balance; you can’t be too serious all the time. So it’s a strange one.

Cole Palmer should have gone, 100%. People talk about his form towards the back end of the season before he got injured, but you’ve still got to take a player like Cole Palmer. Phil Foden didn’t really have a great season by his standards, so I can understand his exclusion, but Palmer is one you should be taking. I think he should have been taking Luke Shaw too, just for that natural balance on the left of the park.

But listen, England are through to the next round anyway. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. If Tuchel goes on and England win the World Cup, then he’s going to be proven right, isn’t he?

How far do you think England can go in the US? What does the mindset have to be once the knockout stages begin?

At every single World Cup, you look at the England team on paper and you think they’re just as good as anybody else. Go back to the ‘Golden Generation’ in 2006 with Scholesy, Lampard, Steven Gerrard, Rio Ferdinand, and John Terry. You looked at them and thought, on paper, we should be able to compete with any team in the world—not just compete, but actually win it. You look at this current England team and you kind of feel the same way about the individual quality.

Level-wise, if you look at that 2006 midfield, Gerrard, Scholes, and Lampard would all walk into this current England side.

But you look at the other teams at this tournament and you think: Argentina are so reliant on Messi, Norway have Erling Haaland, Portugal have Ronaldo… but all the big players are showing up.

For me, the group stages never meant anything. When I played, my mindset was always just to get out of the group. In France ’98, it was exactly that case—just get through. Once you do, the whole mindset changes because it’s the knockout stage. In the groups, with this new tournament format where three teams can potentially go through from a group, there isn’t really as much jeopardy.

There’s not much jeopardy, which I don’t really get or understand. It should always be just the top two teams. Allowing three teams through means England don’t have to worry or sweat as much about the group performance.

But when it gets to the knockout stage, that’s when you have to get everything spot on. You have to get your team selection exactly right. It’s a completely different feeling. When we played Argentina in France ’98, that was the round of 16. I don’t think England will face a team of that caliber quite so early this time, but back then, every single one of those knockout games was a cup final. From the KO stage, every game for England is a cup final.

And they can’t afford any mistakes. Tuchel has got to get his selection exactly right. Because as much as we look at countries like Cape Verde and think they look like minnows on paper, these teams can cause massive shocks.

If it wasn’t for the penalty decision that went our way last night for Ghana, England could have easily lost that game. I think we’re forgetting about that. It was a blatant penalty, and VAR didn’t even look at it, which baffles me. We haven’t really spoken about VAR all that much during this World Cup, which has actually been great, but that was a blatant penalty last night. It could have been a lot worse for England. When you get to the knockouts, things like that—decision-making and tactical discipline—become a major factor.

Is Michael Carrick the right man for the job?

Listen, I don’t want to get deluded here, but if you look at the time since Sir Alex Ferguson left, we’ve had about seven or eight managers. And everyone has asked me the exact same question as soon as a new manager gets the post—whether it was José Mourinho or whoever—”Is the future looking bright for United?” You can only really say yes until they get sacked.

To be fair, I said from day one when Ole Gunnar Solskjær took over that they should have gone and got Mauricio Pochettino. That was my thing: go and get Poch. Alright, they got Solskjær, he did well at the back end of that season, they gave him a long-term contract, and then it all went to pieces in the new season.

So when you ask me about Michael Carrick, I think he has brought some calmness to the team. To me, it looked like you had a team under Rúben Amorim playing a 3-5-2 system that none of the players actually wanted to play. Then Carrick comes in and plays the 4-3-3 that everybody wants to play, so you naturally expect an improvement. I think everyone got a bit giddy when they beat Arsenal and Manchester City, so it was like, “Yeah, yeah, give him the job permanently.”

The fact that they got into the Champions League this year is a massive bonus. It is funny though, because he lost his job at Middlesbrough, and you think: you lose your job at Boro and then you get the job at one of the biggest clubs in the world? That doesn’t usually make sense. But he has gone in there, he has done ever so well, and the players seem to like him.

The start of this season is going to be incredibly important. Last year they had no Champions League, just the Premier League calendar. Now they are going to have a lot of midweek games and all that travel, so it will be interesting to see how he handles that rotation.

I do like the boy Éderson they’ve just brought in from Atalanta. I think he’s a good midfield player. I still think they need to bring in another proper striker—someone who can guarantee you 25 to 30 goals a season.

Defensively, they also need another centre-half and a right-back, so there is still a lot of work for them to do to improve for next season.

I like the way Carrick carries himself, I like the way he deals with the press, and hopefully they get off to a good start this season. We want to see the future look bright because Manchester United is about winning titles and winning trophies; it’s not just about qualifying for the Champions League. There are four or five places now to get into the Champions League, so the standard has to be competing with the likes of City and Arsenal. Those teams will be stronger next year, and Liverpool will be stronger next year too. All United fans want is to make sure the team is up there truly competing for the title. If you’re not doing that, then there’s a problem.

Is Ederson good enough to cut it at Old Trafford?

He’s tenacious, and he has plenty of legs. He is one of those players I mentioned before who can get up and down the park. He can defend, and technically he is very good—you have to be when you play in Serie A, especially for a team like Atalanta. He can tackle, and for me, he is a proper all-rounder.

Listen, it is always difficult for a player making that transition. It was for me when I went from Manchester United to Inter—it takes time to settle in. For the first three months, I couldn’t speak the language, but then Roy Hodgson came over as manager and things started to settle down for me. It will take time for Éderson to settle into English football, so he needs to be given that patience. But once he is settled, you’ve got a very good all-round player.

I think people sometimes don’t realise that. Look at Florian Wirtz coming from Leverkusen to Liverpool—it hasn’t been completely seamless yet, but has he fully settled into a new country? Sometimes it can be incredibly difficult moving to another country where your family might still be back in Germany or Brazil, and you’re here on your own. I’ve seen a few players like that in my time who struggled initially to settle into a squad, so we might see a much better version of Wirtz this year.

But people like Éderson, as I said, will be great for Manchester United. I’m just not sure how Carrick is going to play him or exactly where he fits in alongside Kobbie Mainoo and Bruno Fernandes. But he is a very good player, and I think the United fans will really enjoy watching him.

After what happened to Arne Slot, who would be a football manager?

The thing is, it’s in your blood and you love it. You kind of think, “What else am I going to do?” If you retire early from the game, you still have 60 years of your life to live. Look at people like Roy Hodgson, who managed his whole life. You think it’s time for him to just sit back and relax, but he just loves it. Managers just wonder what else they would do with themselves.

I do feel for Slot. I thought the way the board handled it was poor. I didn’t like it; it’s not the Liverpool way. Obviously, people were clamoring for him to get sacked before the end of the season. But once the season finished, you kind of think as a manager, “Right, I’m still here, let’s start looking forward and building for next year.” Then the next minute, he’s gone. Obviously, Richard Hughes worked with Iraola at Bournemouth, so there was an immediate connection there, and then they sacked Slot. I just don’t think that was the right way to treat a manager.

It’s the same as what they did at Wolves with Rob Edwards. Disgraceful. Both of those are my former clubs, and you should represent yourself with more class than that. Nowadays people don’t give a monkeys, do they? It’s not a nice way to treat managers.

But there has to be an element of basic respect. When you treat managers the way Wolves treated Rob Edwards—finding out on social media or having his kids find out that way that he was sacked—it’s not a nice feeling. I’m not sure who would want to be a manager at Wolves right now, that’s for sure. But I’m sure Edwards will get another job, and I’m sure Arne Slot will too.

Is Andoni Iraola the man to make them title challengers once more?

When you manage Liverpool, the fans always have an expectation, just like when you’re at Manchester United. I looked at Liverpool last season and I just thought it wasn’t right. There were a lot of issues there. Obviously, the Mohamed Salah stuff with Arne Slot wasn’t great for the club. It’s very rare that you see that kind of friction come out publicly from Liverpool Football Club; you usually see that stuff come out of other clubs.

Also, you very rarely hear Liverpool fans boo. Never—that’s not the Liverpool way. When the fans start doing that, you kind of think, “Right, something is not right here, there’s a deep issue.”

When I talk about great players, I talk about Roy Keane, Paul Scholes, Ryan Giggs, or Mark Hughes. These are great players because they performed at the top level week in, week out and year in, year out in the Premier League. That’s a great player—not someone who just does it for one season.

Under Slot in his first season, the likes of Ryan Gravenberch and Alexis Mac Allister were absolutely fantastic, outstanding. But last season, I thought they were poor. Virgil van Dijk wasn’t at his absolute best, Ibrahima Konaté wasn’t at his best, and you obviously lost Trent Alexander-Arnold to Real Madrid. On top of that, Salah wasn’t at his peak. So you can see why they weren’t performing well. Alexander Isak got injured straight away, came back and scored against Tottenham, but then got injured for the rest of the season.

If you go through that squad, Federico Chiesa hasn’t been the signing we thought he would be at this moment. Hugo Ekitike has been out for three months. So you can see exactly why they struggled last year, and that’s not even mentioning the impact that Diogo Jota’s death would have had on the club.

There is a massive revamp to do at Liverpool. A big revamp.

Even with Curtis Jones now being linked to Inter Milan—to be a truly great player, you have to perform year in and year out. We use that word “great” too easily and too flippantly now. To earn that, you have to sustain it.

So it’ll be interesting to see who Iraola brings in. People are talking about Yan Diomande from RB Leipzig for £90 million or something like that. Honestly, I watched him the other day and I think, yeah, he’s got some nice attributes, but he’s a bit of a fizzy drink—he just pops up here and there. For £90 million, I’m thinking, “Jesus Christ.” Especially when you’ve got the young lad Rio Ngumoha at Liverpool, who is only 16 or 17 and plays on that left-hand side. Why do we need to go and spend that money on someone who is only two years older than him?

I’m interested to see how they do. I certainly don’t expect them to win the title this year, that’s for sure, but it will be interesting to see what acquisitions Iraola brings in to make them better, because they need a much better season.