Odds-On Interviews with Roy Brindley, Episode 5 - Ian McCulloch, Former Top-16 Snooker Pro

ODDS-ON INTERVIEWS WITH ROY BRINDLEY — EPISODE 5
Ian McCulloch, former top-16 snooker pro
Recorded Thursday 8 October 2026 | Host: Roy Brindley | bestbettingsites.co.uk

Roy: Hello, welcome to the Odds-On podcast brought to you by bestbettingsites.co.uk. My name’s Roy, and delighted to be joined by former top snooker pro Ian McCulloch. Ian, welcome to the Odds-On podcast.

Ian: Thanks for having me on Roy. Looking forward to it.

Roy: It’s great stuff, It’s great stuff mate because I know, You know, we could talk to a snooker player, but we’ve got a lot of things in common. You know your way around the world of betting and gambling. We’ll get to that later. What have you been doing since you put your cue back into the cupboard? And why did you retire?

Ian: As little as possible! Yeah I retired not by choice, to be honest. I started getting, about 2000 and Eight, something like that. I’d started getting some pains in my shoulder and my arm, and like all lads you know, it’ll go away tomorrow, and it never went away and it got worse, and I started taking painkillers, and it got progressively worse and to the point where I can remember playing, I think it was Joe Swail, I was playing one match, and I got down on a shot, because I had to put my hand in a certain position, You could see my arm physically trembling because of the pain through my shoulder. And I gritted my teeth for two seasons And I sort of like knew the inevitable was going to come. And I was offered an operation, was told that everything would be back to normal after six weeks, and it’s still not right to this day. I got A lot of my movements in my shoulder back but not the movements I needed to play snooker to the level that I wanted to play at. And… I made a decision, didn’t tell anybody it was only Wendy my wife knew, and I made a decision what year would it have been 2012 now when I finished so it’d have been Christmas 2011. And I was dropping like a stone because I was pulling out of events because things weren’t right and I’d started losing to, one or two players who You can’t say you shouldn’t lose to them, but they were players who, in my prime, I would have brushed aside and I did brush aside. And… It hurts your pride. You’re not the player you was it was not really your fault that you’re dropping down and I dropped off in 2012 and I just said that’s it, you know there’s no Q School, I think I did I think I did about… Six more months of exhibitions. Our common good friend, Colin Lloyd, we used to do a lot of nights together, snooker and darts nights, and I kept dragging him out And I was getting away with it a lot, really, Roy, if I’m honest with you. I was, I was, I always got a lot of work because of the banter and the jokes and the stories. But eventually you can’t get away with just telling jokes and stories. You’ve got to be potting balls. And I remember the last playing gig I did was in Blackpool, stones throw from me up the road, and I remember thinking that’s it And I cancelled about and another half a dozen exhibitions after that, just made excuses, said I couldn’t do them. And I’m still very heavily involved. I was always Very heavily involved in events. I look after a few tour players I look I’ve looked after Lloydy for years you know getting players sponsorships, getting players exhibitions, I’ve got a dinner tomorrow night, I host a lot of events and things like that. So I’ve always kept busy, snooker was never The be all and end all. I wasn’t stupid enough to think it was gonna be. Snooker was very very kind to me, still is very kind to me. I never thought it would be as kind as what it is, I was sensible. I invested my money, and when I finished I didn’t have to panic. And I just plod along, and I go fishing a couple of times a week, and I do Pretty much what I want to be honest

Roy: That’s good for you, pal. Right, back up a little bit. We’ve never met, so I’m not trying to… To suck up to a friend but Yeah, we have a few mutual acquaintances, but I… Have been told more than once, when it come to exhibition stuff, you above everyone and anyone, was the man. Yeah you were the guy to have. You quite simply just… Don’t do it anymore? I mean the feedback I can give you, You should do.

Ian: It’s the playing side of it. I mean, I still do events; I still host a lot of events, Obviously this is a quietest time of year in the summer, but there’s still dinners. I so I’ve got a dinner tomorrow night hosting that. I can’t play to the level I want to play at and I’m not going to embarrass myself. But I still enjoy being on the mic. I’m not everybody’s cup of tea. No MC’s everybody’s cup of tea. I do it my way. But I seem to get enough work, so I must be doing something right. I don’t do as much as I used to. And I wish I could still do the exhibition the reason I got the work was I used to, I didn’t just used to turn up and just pop balls like a lot of the players did. I grew up with Dennis Taylor. Dennis used to come in the club every day and then he said look don’t just go and pot balls, put a show on. Tell them some jokes tell them some stories and it’s just all an act and When you’re doing… Four nights a week for 15 years, the act just gets better and better. And I used to, I used to get regular letters from clubs and I’d do an exhibition and I’d get a letter off them two or three days later. Thanks for last night, Record taking’s on the bar. Can you come again next year…to take the piss out of everybody and have the crack, oh and play some snooker. So it just went from there.

Roy: Great satisfaction for you. Right, at your playing pomp, you reach the top 16 of the world

Ian: Yep. That’s a bit of a contentious issue, but yeah, yeah

Roy: Okay. Well, tell us why that’s contentious.

Ian: Well, I had I a bit of a bad run, really. I’d squeezed in… In 2004 I had to get to the quarterfinals of the World Championships. And I beat Ebdon in the first round, played very well. Beat McManus in the second round, and then Hendry. Hendry was very lucky. He edged me out… He was so lucky to beat me 13-3! And I actually played very well to be honest I played well that match and he won, he stole so many close frames, but listen, Hendry what a player, phenomenal. And the only way I couldn’t be in the In the final was if Graeme Dott got to the final. And he’d hardly won a match all year. But I was also sensible enough at that quarterfinal stage to back Graeme Dott each way. So I had a bit of insurance on that as well. And Graeme ended up getting to the final. He knocked me out. C’est la vie. I was number 17 for the next season. I did it all again the year after. I had to get to the semifinals. I started 2004-2005 season really well. Got the Grand Prix pre-final. And O’Sullivan beat me in the final nine, five or nine six, I think it was. And that got me up to number 11. But because of the old system… I still was out the top 16 even though I was number 11, so I was actually playing players, I had to win matches to get to players who I was higher ranked than. That was what the old system was like, And it’s not like that now. The system’s changed. They have cutoffs and if you’re number 11 at a certain cutoff, you go up to number 11. And I got to the worlds and I had to get to the semis of the world to get in the top 16. And I got to the semi-finals, I beat Graeme Dott first round, Mark Williams, the second round, McManus in the quarters, and I lost 17-14 to Matthew Stevens in the semis, and I was in at number 16. And the only way I couldn’t be in the top 16 was if Shaun Murphy won it. That was 2005. And I’d still be number 16, but because Shaun Murphy was out of the top 16, he was the number one seed for every tournament the year after. So even though I was number 16, I started every tournament as number 17. So it’s, I always, I used to be on social media, and my bio said world ranked 16 and a half once. And so I got my provision I got to number 11. On the old, on the new system, sorry, now, with the way the points are now, with the seed, the two seasons back-to-back I’d had, I’d have probably been up to… Six, seven, eight, something like that, but c’est la vie, it is what is, Murphy knocked me out, I’ll be honest with you, it absolutely broke me. I’d worked so hard for two or three years. And then my shoulder started having problems. And The rest is history, basically.

Roy: So this was the year that Murphy won it. My recollection

Ian: Yeah 2005 yeah

Roy: My recollection, he was a qualifier. I mean, did

Ian: Yeah. Yep.

Roy: Did people take him seriously going into the… The tournament, I mean Did they know?

Ian: He was he’s a proper player, Shaun was a proper player when he was a kid and he was, he was I think if you actually I bet if Shaun watched that championship back he’d probably cringe at some of the shots he took on and knocked in, because he was so raw, and I remember going down to one of the pubs near me Just around the corner from us and what I found out what they’d been doing, They’d been putting like breakfast on in the morning when I was playing in a morning session and at night when I was on, it was on the TVs in the pub. And I walked in, The night of the final, it was Matthew Stevens and Murphy. I said the only way I couldn’t be in the 16 was if Murphy won it. To be fair, I’d had a good insurance bet, I’d covered myself a little bit. I was stupid, not stupid enough, not to do that. And I’d spent the two days of the final doing absolutely everything but watching the snooker. And I was cutting the grass and I went to the pub on the, it was the Monday night, and I walked in the pub and they had the snooker on the tellies and they turned the snooker off. To be fair, and we were sat around the corner where the pool table used to be, and it was still on this one telly And I was sat there with the lads, and I’m sort of like half watching it because it know it had a big bearing on my life, it actually cost me, I think it probably cost me, somewhere in the region of about half a million pounds in lost earnings from that. From being a guaranteed 16 player to not being in. And it was something like 17-16 and Murphy took a red on along the bottom cushion and I’m thinking, please take it on because it was absolute suicide, and as soon as he hit it I knew it was in. And I just put my pint down on the table, and I just walked out the pub, and cried the whole way home. I was absolutely, I was broken. And My phone never rang for about a week. All my mates avoided me and everything like the plague. It doesn’t matter now, but at the time it really, really hurt.

Roy: Twice now you’ve mentioned you backed a rival, or should we say a fellow snooker player, the rules must have been very different then. You’re allowed to take insurance bets yourself, and back people to win the competition

Ian: Well, you’re not backing yourself to win or lose, and That was different. I was, I was ensuring my place, giving myself a bit of insurance. If I didn’t get my place in the top 16, You know, if I, if I’m, if I’m playing Matthew Stevens and I’m backing Graeme Dott… Or another a or the player. I’m not. Doing anything wrong am I?

Roy: Oh, I’d say no, You know, I just wondered how the rules were then because.

Ian: Yeah. I’m not sure I am genuinely not sure what the rules are or were, To be honest.

Roy: Wow. I would suspect they’ve changed. We’ve obviously had a big raft of Chinese players sent home with the tail between their legs. I mean…

Ian: But they Yeah, them lads were backing on match scores, weren’t they, and things like that, and match outcomes. I, I was backing outright tournament winners and things like that, and each way on the tournaments and things like that. You know, so, But I don’t know, Roy, if I’m honest with you.

Roy: Do you know much about… What went on with the Chinese thing, I mean there was some very big names that that that we’re not going to see again ever.

Ian: Yep.

Roy: And We don’t really know. Well, I certainly don’t. Maybe you do. What, what kind of money is involved when it comes to betting on snooker in China?

Ian: Absolutely no idea, to be honest. I mean you know you, You hear lots of stories about the underground markets and things like that and the volumes that have been… Being placed and things like that. And, and you think to yourself, well, you know, if there’s, if there’s ridiculous amounts of money being placed on… The outcome of a… Of a I wouldn’t say a non-descript professional snooker match or a sporting event, but if it’s behind closed doors in a cubicle, would you, Would you not think there was something wrong, regardless of how big a bookmaker you were? Would you not think? You know, I just find it very, very odd. You hear lots of stories about things that have gone on and how it’s linked with gangs and things like that. I think one of the players… I can’t remember which player it was it but I know when Was it Wenbo who was sort of behind it all? And, and, and he was issuing threats to players and things like that. You know you feel sorry because some of those Chinese players… You know especially one or two that have been banned, had real potential as well. You know, real potential.

Roy: All right, Chinese players, the last two world champions, have been Chinese.

Ian: Yeah.

Roy: Now, for me as an outsider. I don’t know, I mean, I look at Luca Brecel, and I still can’t piece together how he won the world championship.

Ian: What a player.

Roy: I’m not convinced our most recent world champion is going, to use a horse-racing term, train on. There is not a Hendry or a Davis or someone that’s going on winning it year after year, winning it, the world championship, is that a good thing or a bad thing?

Ian: It’s a point of view, isn’t it, that? I think it tells you, I think if you look when… And I think Steve will openly admit to this, when Steve was winning everything in the 80s, There was only, Realistically, two, Three, maybe four players pushing him. Parrott came along, sort of like mid-80s, Jimmy White. Griffiths. Griffiths would have won a lot more if Davis hadn’t have been around. You know, you could put Dennis Taylor won plenty. He was number five. When Hendry came along… There was probably a few more. O’sullivan had appeared, John Higgins, had appeared, Mark Williams had appeared, Your Ebdons had appeared, your Stephen Lees. Your Paul Hunters, God bless him. And I think when you look at it now, You look at the depth of the players that are winning tournaments, there’s a lot more and variety of first-time winners. It’s not a surprise that we’ve had two world champions from China on the trot. It’s hard to see, if I’m honest with you, who, Who isn’t a Chinese winner next year, if I’m honest with you. I look at it, and you know there’s a lot of players who don’t perform at the Crucible who are top players. And it’s I just think the depth’s a lot more now. You know, there’s you look at, the standard. I think the playing conditions… I. The pockets are still obviously nasty, they’re tight, but the playing conditions are better. The cloths are quicker, the balls are lighter, the balls open up easier. It’s all conducive now around break building and things like that. And if you can score, you’ve got a chance of winning. It was like that in my day, but the tables were a little bit different, and you had to break build an old-school way at times. That doesn’t seem to be like that now. But I just think there’s more depth in the game now.

Roy: Okay, interesting. So it seems to me if I was asked… Asked you to give me a top 10 of snooker players how you see them at present, you would compile a different list for top 10 of players going into the world snooker championship, You just said players that don’t perform at the Crucible. I’ve certainly noticed. Mark Allen, Year after year, I think this is his year. This is his year. I think on his day, he can… He can, He can run like a racehorse and be as stubborn as a mule, when it comes to the Crucible.

Ian: Me

Roy: So So who would you… Currently And what we what are we, September? It could change in the next six weeks. But Give me your current top five and then give us the five you would look At the end of this season, that you’d like to see go to the Crucible with a live chance?

Ian: Well, Xintong’s up there massively. He’s world number one now and He is An absolute phenomenal talent. The worrying thing for me is what’s coming out of China that we don’t know about, that’s going to be better than Xintong? You know, Wu Yize the geezer, as he’s affectionately known. I actually think he’s got a bit of weight on his shoulder as the world champion. I think he’ll be in the mix. You know, you look at Judd Trump. Judd Trump is current world number two. His return at the Crucible for me for being a world number one for long as what as long as what he’s been is very poor. One title which, I think, he won 10 years ago was it something like that? Maybe more than that now, and I think he as he had a couple of finals as well, I’m not 100% sure, don’t quote me on that. Judd just doesn’t perform there, Performs and everything else doesn’t perform there. I couldn’t put, and I don’t get any pleasure in saying this, I couldn’t put… Ronnie, Mark Williams or John Higgins in that category now, as a top five potential world winners. They’re all in the 50s now. You can’t concentrate the same at 50 as what you could at 20. And that’s why those players, I know Mark’s just got to the final of the, was it the English or the British Open last week? He lost to… Yeah I can’t think who we lost to it’s only last week that’s terrible isn’t it? Who did he lose to Yeah. How bad is that?

Roy: The Aviator.

Ian: Yeah, Ali beat him, didn’t he, right?

Roy: Ali Carter.

Ian: Yeah, that’s right, Ali Carter beat him. So, so you look at Mark, Mark, Mark. I think out of the sort of like class of ’92, Mark is the one that will hang on the longest because, it just, it doesn’t faze him. John’s trying all sorts of different things; he’s changing cues, he’s tweaking his technique but The one thing you can’t stop is the slide. And John Higgins, his biggest asset was not missing under pressure. He was a phenomenal player. He used to give me more headaches. I just, I just I think I beat him once in about 10 attempts. He was an absolute animal, but he never used to miss. And you look at him now when he’s under pressure, he’s missing balls. And that that that fear factor’s gone a little bit. Ronnie, same again. Ronnie’s not entering much these days because he’s just pulled out of another one, the China one, because he’s not been picked to go out there as a wild card. Says he doesn’t want to go to the qualifying. But he doesn’t like getting beat. Nobody likes getting beat you know, And there’s a new breed coming through. So to you’re at your

Roy: Ronnie O’Sullivan?

Ian: Yeah, Roy again, again you know he just doesn’t he’s not enjoying it. He’s eat I mean imagine how good O’Sullivan was at his pomp, he was phenomenal. He was like, you know, I’m up.

Roy: Yeah, I’d really love to know because… Again, as a casual viewer, I mean… Enigmatic doesn’t even start. To sum him up, he seems like the most off-the-wall, unpredictable character.

Ian: Yeah. Yeah.

Roy: Is it a case of what we see is what we get? I mean, I’m told he doesn’t kind of mix with the clique of other players. I mean, he just really keeps himself to himself. So that year he went into the world championship

Ian: Yeah?

Roy: Without playing a tournament beforehand. People really had no idea what to expect. And of course he rocked up and won it. Is that him? I mean is he just really, I don’t want to say the word it, ‘different’ but it seems…

Ian: There was a… There was a lot of, yeah. There was a lot of speculation that he always not been practicing and stuff like that. But a very good friend of mine, Anthony Hamilton, was based down in Ilford at the time, And Andy Hicks was over at the other side of the M25 at Potters Bar And Ronnie used to float around the clubs and he’d go in a different club every day, you see. And everybody thought he’s only played once this week, but he’d been around playing everybody, you see, and he’d go in Ilford and he got, I can’t remember what the club was called now, and it’s near Potters Bar, but he’d float around all over. He’d go in Ali Carter’s club, go and play Romford, and So he, he was sharp don’t you know, you don’t, you don’t. You know Ronnie makes out like he doesn’t care. Ronnie wouldn’t go into a world championship not prepared.

Roy: Right. You said earlier on, a potential result in the world championship probably cost you half a million, The prize money in snooker is still a mere fraction to what it is, even in darts now.

Ian: It’s a million, isn’t it, the world darts this year?

Roy: The world championship is a million to the winner.

Ian: Oh.

Roy: Yeah.

Ian: Yeah.

Roy: I mean What opportunities have you got outside of playing? Yeah I suppose you just need to perform. You need to win on the bigger stage, and that’s going to bring sponsorship money in. Is that the way this thing works? I mean, there’s this added pressure.

Ian: Yeah, pretty much. The job I think it’s changed, I think it’s changed a lot from when I was doing okay in the sort of like the early 2000s to mid to late 2000s. 20 years ago when we only had seven tournaments a year and everybody goes, oh, that’s a rubbish, that You had more than that. No, I think the most tournaments I ever had as a professional, Excluding the last couple of years when I was finished anyway, when Hearn came in and brought all the PTC events. But prior to that, I think the most events I had in one season was 11 or 12, And I think the lads are now playing in 26 or 28 in a season or something like that. Don’t quote me on that, I know it’s been but it’s been pretty high. And it was different. So I always remember Dennis Taylor saying to me, you know you’ll never… You’ll never earn money as a player unless you learn to win on TV. And I didn’t really understand what he meant at the time. But what he was saying, if you’re on TV, you were playing the top players, you’re in the latter stages of events you were getting the big cheques, and I was lucky enough to have a few years where I was doing that pretty consistently, And because I was doing well in the BBC… You got the exhibition work as well, like you say I used to be out three four nights a week, I used to do massive mail shots, I used to send about 5,000 letters out three times a year, every four months. But there’s loads of clubs and all the clubs are shut now. And you’d get about, you’d probably get about. 50 nights off 5,000 letters. So you add you had sort of like 150 nights a year there, plus the rebooking stuff, the brewery contracts, the you know the stuff that was coming word of mouth. And that’s not really there for the lads now, but it doesn’t need to be there because they’ve got that many playing events To play in. So they’re earning, or if they’re winning, they’re earning anyway. And same again, because I was doing well on BBC, I had some really good sponsors. Littlewoods Gaming, which was… Twinned up with Bet Direct at the time, They approached me through… I did a lot of stuff for William Hills at the time. They approached me and I had… Some fantastic money off them for a few years as well.

Roy: So the likes of Ronnie. Ironically, playing is almost a distraction. Because if he plays and doesn’t perform and he becomes a bit of a shadow of himself, then his stock goes down because we all know Ronnie’s got plenty going on away from the table. So different times, you were saying… 20 years ago there was a lot less tournaments. Everything factored in, is it good there’s less? Or do you think there’s it’s good that there’s more?

Ian: I think as a player or all you want. As a player is playing opportunities. And if you are playing well. You know I see the lads moaning no, They’ve just done a little stint in China. I think they played three tournaments in six weeks in China and Mark Selby came back, lost in the final of one of the tournaments the other week, and he was saying he was tired. Well, he didn’t use that word. And So they were playing a week in China, having a week off, then a week in China, having a week off. But those lads would have been doing work in China as well. You know, the Chinese snooker now is absolutely massive. They’re throwing money at the likes of your Mark Selby’s and stuff like that. Mark’s obviously there in the top five players, going back to that. So they were tired because they’re doing all the extra other stuff. The lads lower down the rankings. I look after Daniel Wells. I think Daniel went out for the first tournament, lost in the last 16, came home, went back three weeks later and lost in the last 32 or something like that. So at least, you know, he’s winning games in the events, and he is picking money up. You know I can remember thinking when Barry Hearn Brought the PTCs. But you know, in 2009, And he gave us about eight PTCs. And one of my very good friends from snooker was Dave Harold, And I remember thinking to me, Anthony Hamilton was coming to the end a little bit as well then. Yeah He’d had a few years after that. But I remember thinking at my pomp… I’d have loved these PTCs two or three days over a weekend. I think they were 10 grand to the winner. I’d have been bitterly disappointed in my pomp, if Dave Harold or myself hadn’t won at least one or two of them between us. And we used to split everything in that sort of stuff anyhow, me and Dave, so it doesn’t matter now does it but you know, again. We were past our best then, but as players, you just want playing opportunities. A lot of the stuff that we used to go to, we used to go out to Switzerland a lot and get paid to play in events in Switzerland. I went to Israel. Went to Germany a million times Holland, Belgium, France. And we were getting paid to play in events, smaller events like that. But obviously the lads don’t need to do that now because they’ve got that many playing events.

Roy: PTC? For our listeners, the PTC is a what?

Ian: They were called player, I think they were player tour championship, or something like that,

Roy: And these are based, but take part in a very sterile kind of audience free zone?

Ian: Uh-oh.

Roy: Zone.

Ian: It’s funny that I, I can’t remember. The first one was at Sheffield, And I always remember Hendry had entered it. And Hendry’s, obviously what a player, You know. Spent his entire career with cameras in his face and winning umpteen worlds and umpteen everything else. And his first PTC match was in a cubicle at nine o’clock in the morning at the English Institute of Sports against Anthony McGill. And Anthony McGill, was, nobody really knew Anthony McGill then, He was just coming through. And but he was a phenomenal player he’s a phenomenal player, and I think McGill was something like four to one to win that game and McGill was super comfy in them cubicles, the tables play different, the lighting’s different, and Hendry will have been hitting everything thick and thin and missing balls and being confused why he’s missing balls because they don’t play anything like TV tables, And McGill beat him 4-nil. You know, it’s just a different world in that qualifying setup.

Roy: Wow.

Ian: And that’s all I can remember about the very first one. Can’t even remember I lost to.

Roy: Right, there you go. So let’s go on to our next topic then. 4/1, You clearly know you’re gambling. You know your odds. You know the way this game works. Since retiring, you took to… Gambling on snooker, like on a semi-professional basis.

Ian: Not just snooker. Just, I’ve got a… Met a lot of good people over the years and in a lot of other sports and who have very very similar interests and a lot of the time, you know, we would price things up. And if the price was bigger than what we thought it should be, we’d back it. If it was less and there was enough liquidity on the exchange, we’d lay it, you know, that sort of stuff. And yeah, we’d had, we have one or two little bad patches as everybody does, but it’s not a sprint, it’s a marathon. And again, it’s yeah, it’s been very, very kind. We’ve also we’ve had some very good spells. We’ve had some really good touches.

Roy: As a former player, watching snooker with an eye to placing a bet if value appears, do you think you’ve got an advantage? I mean you know, surely Yeah.

Ian: Absolutely.

Roy: Sure do you yeah

Ian: Absolutely, and you know But I have a friend who’s very heavily involved in netball. And you just you wouldn’t believe that the things that we get given from netball. It’s just, It’s just… Lunacy absolute lunacy and what I mean there’s obviously certain factors that we understand as players That Players who aren’t players don’t understand, and there’s it’s is there’s lots of variables. And if you understand those variables, you put the there five percent book in your favour don’t you?

Roy: Sounds good to me. Netball, how did you fall in? I know these sports exist, that you know I’ve heard basketball is huge around so much of Europe, Lithuania, places like that.

Ian: Yep.

Roy: Netball’s a funny one to fall into

Ian: Again, it’s not just netball I mean we, we actually made quite a bit of money last year. I love championship football. I love the chat. I think it’s fantastic for Betting on, Fantastic for laying on anyway And we did very, very well on the championship football last year. Again, we have a little we set a few little ground rules out and if the match fits into our little ground rules, we’ll have a go, and If there’s no ground rules, there’s no bet. If they don’t fit in, there’s no bet.

Roy: Snooker is… Increasingly, in fact, almost exclusively sponsored by betting firms these days. Everyone’s had a pop at it. Betfred, William Hill, Ladbrokes, you know and firms we’ve not even heard of now

Ian: Midnight, yeah, there’s a little jump. Yeah.

Roy: Good thing, bad thing? Indifferent?

Ian: I think any sponsorship is good. I think you’ve also got to be realistic, where you are in the pecking order of sports. You’ve got to be realistic where you are in the pecking order of viewing figures. You know, when you think something like a match at the Embassy World Championships Will probably attract, I could be wrong, maybe 3 million quid, people, sorry, for a night match. Obviously that’s a little bit different now with the socials and all the reach around Europe and eastern and the far east But when you look how many people watched, How many people watched Man United / Brighton last night? You know, that’s the difference, isn’t it? They’re getting massive viewing figures, and that’s why you’re not going to attract… The likes of Rolex, you’re not going attract the likes of Barclays Bank because them sort of deals aren’t made in snooker clubs, they’re made on golf courses and they’re made in tennis clubs aren’t they? And things like that, you know, sadly that’s just the nature of snooker and you can glamorise it as much as you want I think Barry Hearn has done a fantastic job with what he’s done with the lads And giving them player opportunities and bringing more events and bringing in sponsors in the world snooker weren’t bringing in. But you’ve also got to be realistic, you know we’ve had, I think, Victoria Plumbing sponsored the UK for a few years, but the majority, like you say, are gaming companies because that’s if that’s your… Demographic that’s all you’re gonna get isn’t? Is that the right word?

Roy: Yeah, we did have that. That’s a good word, yeah. We had that period where there was the… Car company, name passes me by, But Barry Hearn must have loved… Them because They took on Everything, I think they even had the Epsom Derby, but they had everything.

Ian: Oh, man.

Roy: Everything the Barry

Ian: Cazoo.

Roy: Yeah, I mean, everything Barry had, you know, in every sport and area.

Ian: Yeah. Yeah.

Roy: Yeah, but that what that that that was a rare exception. No, I’m just more thinking that… The Everyone’s always going to look for an edge, you know. And you know it’s just unfortunate, I don’t know, snooker the Tour de France went the same way. Everybody loved the Tour de France, Then we learned about Lance Armstrong and its reputation is tarnished through today. But If you give children cigarettes, you can’t blame them for smoking kind of thing. And when everything is about… Gambling when it comes to snooker then maybe it’s causing a few of its own problems. But like you say if you can’t find the sponsors if it’s not appealing And as a viewer, I’ve got to say, I look at the crowd And they’re very… A bus stop gathering would have nothing on the…

Ian: Yeah, I mean, they’re yeah they’re always busy for finals and You know, but I think one of the things and the that has the potential to be slightly detrimental to it Is the influx of Chinese players. My dad God bless him, he passed away a few months ago, he used to love watching the snooker And I’d go, do you want a snooker the other night, Dad? And he’d go no I didn’t know anybody he said there were two Chinese players, you know the majority of people now have satellite TV, fire sticks, whatever, so they can get the channels, a lot of the older people are still on the terrestrial channels and the Freeview TVs and things like that and You know it’s going to get to a point where there’s going to be more and more Chinese players, because the english players just aren’t coming through in volume like they did in my generation. And it’s going to end up more and more players in the Last eight of events, you know, Chinese players, six. There was one not so long back, I think six out of the last eight were all Chinese, and less people are going to watch it Because they don’t know the players. And this is just my opinion, my take on it, whether I’m right or wrong is another thing. And I actually think you know that the broadcast is going to go well we’re not getting the viewing figures anymore because the players who people don’t know. And what’s going to happen then? What’s going to happen with the World Championships if… 12 out of the sixteen top 16 players are Chinese? You know, the chin.. The Chinese Far Eastern and TV companies will be Chomping at the bit to take it, won’t they?

Roy: Snooker’s missing a few characters isn’t it? I’m just thinking Kirk Stevens and Alex Higgins at his pomp, I mean that almost, and Bill Werbeniuk and that type of that, That’s gone and surely that’s needed. How do you feel about the snooker shootout when the crowd are encouraged to start participating? Good thing or bad thing?

Ian: I loved it. Love that. The first snooker shootout was at Blackpool. I’m from Preston. If you know anything about football, there’s not a lot of love between Blackpool and Preston. And I was stood at the top of the stairs being introduced into the match, and I was waiting for about a minute, and I learnt about 40 new swear words! It was absolutely fantastic. For one tournament a year… Can’t fault it, absolutely brilliant. It’s something different. I don’t agree it should be a ranking event Because there are a handful of players who’ve won that who have never been close to winning a full ranking, what I would class as a proper ranking event. There was the Cypriot lad won it a few years ago, Michael Georgiou. Nice lad, Michael. I don’t even think he’d been past the last 32 of a main event. But he went and won the shootout, hey ho he got the money, and he got the champion of champions and things like that. But I don’t think it should be a ranking event, but for one event a year, not a problem, Not a problem with you at all.

Roy: So would you, I’m guessing you wouldn’t like to see any sort of major… Changes. I know they came up with that golden ball gimmick thing in Saudi Arabia a few years ago.

Ian: Again if it’s a one-off if it’s a one-off, it doesn’t matter but there’s always a place You know. It’s, it’s meant to be a gentleman’s sport, who dress like gentlemen, and things like the Crucible, you know, They should always be there. You know that’s the world’s the pinnacle of the sport, you know, dress accordingly you know act accordingly, as a crowd member, and you’ll still get Great value for money watching it.

Roy: I’m guessing the answer is going to be very little. But what would you change about Snooker if you were in charge?

Ian: What would That’s a really good question. What would I change about snooker? Yeah yeah To be honest, I don’t think there is a lot to change. It’s a tried and tested method. It’s been on the BBC for years and the mainstream channels for years. What would I change? You know, they go on about the rankings, how. I actually think the ranking system, it’s gone back to what we’d call a tiered system now. It was a flat draw where everybody started in the first round for a long time after I’d finished. And when I was playing, you were just playing top 16 player after top 16 player after top 16 player. And there was a competition in, I think it was India about 10 years ago, Robbie Williams, lad from Liverpool. Nice lad, Robbie. I think he got the semi-finals and never played a top 16 player. You know, it couldn’t happen or you’d be very, very, very, very lucky to have that in my day. So I think. I don’t think it matters what system is in place. If you are good enough, you will come through. The one thing I don’t agree with is, I don’t agree with paying players just for being on tour. Because we never got any guarantee unless you were in a certain ranking structure, I think you had to get the top 64 to be guaranteed money. But if you’re on tour now, If you don’t win a game, you will be given £20,000. So you don’t get £20,000 on your ranking, but financially you are £20,000 better off. Now, there could be somebody who’s won enough matches to earn £20,000. He gets £20,000 on his ranking, but financially he’s no better off than you. And I don’t agree with that. And There are people who will look players who are openly admitting that they’re only carrying on playing because they get the £20,000 bunk up every year. Now If that’s all you’re aiming to earn, 20 grand a year, you know, are you aiming high enough, and should you really be a professional sportsman? You should be able to pay that in tax in minimum, shouldn’t you?

Roy: I… Remember Elliot Slessor winning? Or beating Ronnie, in the Northern Irish Open.

Ian: Yeah, go play it.

Roy: And, I think he said afterwards that that his grandfather lent him or gave him the money to continue on tour. Look, if you haven’t got the money to play poker, you can’t pay the entry fee. You don’t.

Ian: Nope.

Roy: Play.

Ian: Yep.

Roy: But the show.

Ian: Nobody makes them do it Roy. It’s all their choice. Nobody did, nobody says Nobody puts their arm behind the back and says, you’re going to be a pro snooker player. They all get options.

Roy: But isn’t that the… Isn’t that… The prize for making it onto the tour, that is the carrot. I’m not asking a question I know the answer to here, by the way.

Ian: No not No, I get a lot of people, I hear, I hear a lot of the Q-tour, which is the amateur level

Roy: I just…

Ian: And they go the hardest part’s getting on the main tour, once you’re on the main tour it’s easy. Deluded! Right? And you see these lads coming off the Q-tour every year and they’re just getting absolutely smashed to bits. I’ll use Elliot. I know Elliot, Fantastic player. I think he’s just outside the 16 at the moment; I could be wrong. And I know he’s not I know he’s not far away from there. Elliot is a prime example Of somebody who has grafted and grafted and put hours and hours and on the table. He’s up to Scotland playing Stephen Maguire, John Higgins, Anthony McGill’s up there. He’s up practising with them lads all the time. He’s always out there putting himself about. He deserves everything he gets. That’s why Elliot’s up there. Right so if you are good enough you will come through, if you work hard enough and do the right, I got some stick a few years ago on social media. And I just said, I said if you’re good enough you’ll come through I said half the tour was not working hard enough. And I got abuse off a guy saying how do you know we’re not working hard enough and this guy was about three stone overweight! You don’t need to say any more, do you? Not working on it.

Roy: No, I just need to just need to figure out who you’re referring to.

Ian: You know Doesn’t matter. He’s not But it but they think going in the club. You know, when I look after my lads, I sit down with my lads and I go, right, who are you practicing with? That’s one of the first things I look at. I go, you know, you’re wasting your time practicing with him. His attitude’s diabolical? His attitude’s diabolical, his attitudes diabolical? Right? And you go you if you practice with somebody whose attitude is diabolical, your attitude will be diabolical, you know. Get getting in the car. I used to drive down to play Dave Harold, who was an hour down the road. I used to drive to play Anthony Hamilton. Rather than… Going 10 minutes in the car to play five pros in Preston. Because I wasn’t learning anything. So everything’s about attitude.

Roy: Who are these lads are on your books, or under your wing?

Ian: Daniel Wells at the moment. Dan, Dan’s, I think Dan’s… I’m quite excited about Daniel. He, I genuinely think, he’s got a ranking event in him. I had a couple of spells with Martin O’Donnell, got him up to number 16, got him to the Welsh final. Did a little bit with Ashley Hugill, got him to the Crucible. I’ve got one or two players who will remain anonymous who I’ve helped. I’ve turned more players down, Roy, then that have actually helped because It’s about attitude And they don’t.

Roy: Was actually Is Ashley Hugill the guy that had Judd Absolutely Under the… On the canvas, half over the ropes at the World Championship about eight years ago, literally.

Ian: Was that not Chris?

Roy: We’re talking like a…

Ian: Was that not Chris Wakelin?

Roy: No, no. No

Ian: Ashley lost Ashley got to the Crucible and he lost to he lost to Neil Robertson, 10-5.

Roy: There’s the guy that’s right.

Ian: Played but very, very well actually.

Roy: Okay. You’ve also got your finger on the pulse. We don’t know about the Chinese talent, We know there’s lots of it and it could land at any minute. Are there any players we should look out for domestically that are yet to sort of really get on the tour that you think could have a great future?

Ian: There’s obviously a couple of young lads on the tour at the moment. Liam Pullen. Fantastic player. Fantastic player, he’s just he’s done what a lot of players do qualified for the Crucible, and they become a target the season after, because all of a sudden they’re not beating Liam Pullen. I beat Liam Pullen. He played the Crucible last year. Right? There’s Liam Pullen. Excuse me. There’s young Oli Lines. I say all it young Oli Lines, Oli won’t be that young. I’d love to get my hands on Oli Lines. I’ve known Oli, Don’t be around his throat neither. I’ve known Oli Lines, I remember Oli being Born, Peter’s lad. I’d love to work with Oli Lines, because he’s a great lad. And I think he’s massively, massively underachieving. There’s young Liam Davies from Wales. He’s really stepped up a gear this year. He’s still slightly off the radar. He just got to his first quarterfinal, I think it was in the English, lost to Williams. And he’s still slightly off the radar with the bookies. You know, and they’re still pricing him up slightly bigger than what he should be. Won’t last for long That, will soon get wise to that. There’s a few good amateurs. There’s actually, there’s actually there’s a couple of local lads. Jack, there’s a young player around here, Jack Wilding. I mean he’s got a long long way to go I think he’s 13 now And he’s just had 145 in a league match at 13 years old. So he’s got potential.

Roy: Whoa!

Ian: I’ve been asked to look at him. But there’s lots, you know, it’s about what they’re prepared to do, when they get on to it. Are they prepared to make the changes That they need to do? I.e. Diet I.e. Fitness, sleep pattern, you know if you’re going to sit up till three o’clock every morning on an Xbox, eating Domino’s pizza (not there’s anything wrong with Domino’s pizza, I quite like it if I’m honest with you) right, but If you’re going to have a Domino’s pizza delivered at 11 o’clock at night and then go and try and play snooker at 10 o’clock in the morning, you’re not going to perform, are you? You know, I remember back in the days of the qualifiers at Blackpool in the early 90s, you know, I’d got my sleep pattern right. You know, Your body takes four hours to wake up in the morning, fully. You’re on at 10, you’re up at six and I’d get to Blackpool, I’ve been up since six o’clock, I’d get to Blackpool for nine o’clock, there were lads just rolling down for the breakfast at nine o’clock to play at ten o’clock and they used to wonder why they were 3-0 down. Things like that.

Roy: So how would you describe yourself, a manager or a coach?

Ian: I don’t know, really, right, if I’m honest with you. I just, I just get… I get. I really enjoy when my lads win. Daniel won, Daniel won yesterday, and he’s having, he’s carving out quite a nice little season at the moment. And, and the players he’s losing to are good players. The last three tournaments, I think he’s lost to Xintong. He’s lost to Williams, Who’s the other one? I can’t think. It might have been Trump, actually. And there’s nothing wrong with losing to those players and I get great pleasure watching my lads win. Because I know what it means, I know how they feel. I don’t like it when they get beat because I know what that means and I know what that feels like as well. It’s I don’t really do it for financial gain, I have reasons why I do it, and I get, Danny got to the Crucible a couple of years ago, and I spend two or three days with him there. Danny lost 10-4 to Murphy. I think he made three tons and a 90, and Murphy never missed. But no, I do it because, I have reasons why I do it, and I just… I just I like watching the lads progress, Giving them things to do. And I can see they’re doing it by the way the results change and the games change.

Roy: I’ve written that name down, by the way, Jack Wilding, 13 years of age and a 145 break.

Ian: Yeah. Yeah, 13 or 14. Yeah. Yeah. Very, very good player.

Roy: Do you remember the old days you could go into a betting shop and just… You know, get a price on your grandson to play for England and, you know, you get a 1,000/1 and whatever. I’m going to try that tomorrow. I will head to my local betting shop and say, Jack Wilding, to achieve something. Probably.

Ian: You might get two quid on.

Roy: Probably Okay, let’s not alienate ourselves here.

Ian: Ha ha!

Roy: Right, let’s wrap this one up with one very important question. And I did this with Colin Lloyd in regards to darts. At their very best, at their complete and utter prime, at their pomp. Davis, Hendry or O’Sullivan?

Ian: I’ve been asked this a thousand times. And… Love the man to bits, Very good friends with him, And, He doesn’t mind me saying this… I think Steve, Steve, was good in an era when there wasn’t a lot of good players. His game would have progressed, because that’s what the better players would have dragged him on. Would he have scored as heavy as what Hendry did? I don’t know, I don’t know, the conditions weren’t conducive to that in the 80s. O’Sullivan is a complete, now I’ve had a bit of stick for this in the past, O’Sullivan is an absolute animal, Absolute animal. But for me… Hendry was a bigger animal. And the difference was for me, is you could get O’Sullivan at it a little bit you know he flat he flattened me, he beat me 9-3 in the UK once. And I played really well. And I was 7-nil down, And I got it back to… Seven three I think I had a couple of hundred breaks, I got it back to seven three or 8-3, and I thought, you never give up. If you give up, you’ve no chance of winning. And I thought, just nick the next couple and you might have a chance. And I was in on about 50 and I missed, And he cleared up with 70 to win the match like it was nothing. Right? O’Sullivan’s done that to everybody, but Hendry did that to everybody. You forget Hendry beat O’Sullivan, Was it 17-3 or 17-4 in a World Semi? In ’03 was it? Or something like that. Also, Ronnie wasn’t the player he was. And Ronnie was a fantastic player then. He, he I found Hendry that you just… You just you couldn’t buckle Hendry. For me, I couldn’t anyway. He just used to keep taking balls on, and he wouldn’t chuck his toys out the pram like Ronnie’s done Many many times But it would have been great to watch. A Hendry is best and an O’Sullivan is at his best. Going head to head it would have been an absolute epic match to watch because they were just they were both just complete animals, probably a bit of nostalgia for me, but I’m going to say Hendry.

Roy: I’m not surprised. And another snooker pros I’ve spoken to said this. I’m feeling a bit guilty, though, because should I have thrown a few more names in there? Should I have put John Higgins in there to be considered in the mix? Or is he just below?

Ian: Yeah. I mean, I mean you could throw Selby in the mix, couldn’t you? What a player Mark Selby is. What an absolute… Animal Mark Selby is, Hendry couldn’t cope with him. Ronnie can’t cope with him. I actually had a cracking bet the year, The year that… Audience I think, was it COVID year, when O’Sullivan beat… But, beat Selby in the final. And I don’t mind telling the story. And I’d been backing Selby I just kept chalking bits up on the exchange. At like two or three points bigger than what it should have been. And I kept getting matched over this. And I was green to about… I think it was green to about seven or eight grand on him. And he won his first match, I think he beat Noppon Saengkham. And because he only won 10-8 to 10-9, His price for the tournament went bigger. Right, it was absolute lunacy, so we were like we got the wheelbarrow out And… And he was playing O’Sullivan in the semis. It must have been the semis; in fact it was the semis. O’Sullivan beat Kyren Wilson in the final, it was covid year And… It must have been the Saturday night. And my dad, God bless him, wasn’t good, and I ended up in hospital with my dad And there was no phone signal in the hospital. And Selby was… Selby was 16-14 up on O’Sullivan. And if he gets to the final against Kyren Wilson, he’s probably opening up at about… Then, probably 2/7, fours-on, something like that. And I’m super green at that point. And they’re offering me a massive cash out. I thought, well… Ronnie, Ronnie’s… You know Selby will force a chance out of him and Ronnie just went for everything for the last three frames and won. And I’d cashed out I’d done all right on it but I could have done a lot better on it I know that

Roy: We better explain the definition of green is yeah that was what you stood to win. You clearly know your way around.

Ian: Yeah.

Roy: The You clearly know your way around the betting exchanges. There’s not the sort of money in the betting exchanges anymore in any sport. Are you finding that?

Ian: Yeah. Yeah, I if it’s a televised event. I think that’s a little bit different. I think the thing with the exchanges now, you don’t get as many. In the early days of the exchange, when people didn’t really know what they were doing with it, there’d be a lot of money left there as such. During games and things like that, and people not really knowing what they were doing. And I think a lot of people have got wiser to it. If it’s a big televised game, you’ll still get you’ll still get good money. Again, even on the in-running frame markets, if it’s a World Championship game, it’s a televised game, there’s still plenty of money there. But on the on the chicken pen stuff, like they’re on at the moment… At I think they are at the Mattioli in Leicester for the qualifying for China, There’s buttons, really. It’s not worth looking at it. People are asking for stupid prices to lay or back, so there’s nothing there, basically.

Roy: Ian I’ve got to say. You seem very happy with your a lot. Where… Do you plan to be in five or ten years time? Where do you think you’re realistically going to be in five or ten years time?

Ian: And Well, we’ve had a… We’ve had a plan. For a few years now we I’m sort of like… Between Preston and Blackburn in the Ribble Valley. And it’s lovely where we are. I can’t complain. My father past passed a couple of months ago, My wife’s mum’s not so good. And I think the plan is hopefully… Move up to the Lake District. It’s only an hour up the road. And sort of like I’m 55 now, my wife’s 55, probably move up there in the next two, three, four, or five years max and see my days out of there. My, My children are both grown up now. My wife my daughter’s a successful singer. She does really well. My son’s got a good job and, you know, we’ve sort of like done the job right with them. And yeah I think the plan is probably go to the lakes pending my health stays good and my wife’s health stays good. And see my days out riding my bike around the lakes and fishing on Windermere and things like that

Roy: That sounds good to me. Listen, I’m going to have 40 quid on Jack Wilding to win the world championship before, before 2040, and I’ll join you up there with the proceeds. Ian, It’s been an absolute pleasure talking to you, a real insight.

Ian: Thanks for having me

Roy: And you know on behalf of myself and the Odds-On podcast brought to you by bestbettingsites gonna thank you, we best just say and you know the routine here, please do gamble responsibly. I think we can both agree it can be a lot of fun and don’t take it too seriously. You know it’s part and parcel as they say, it matters more when there’s money on it, but just don’t go in over yourself. Ian, thank you so much, my friend.

Ian: Absolutely.

Roy: And I hope we’re going to talk again in the non-too-distant.

Ian: Thank you very much. So do I, absolutely. Thanks, Roy.

Roy: Take care pal. Thank you.

Ian: No, good. Yeah, perfect, mate.

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